Living Stoicism

Socratic Philosophy for the 21st Century


James Daltrey on Virtue & the use of Indifferents

By Keith Myers

First of all, “indifferent” does not mean “indifference”. How can a sculptor learn to sculpt in the absence of marble? Externals are the stuff upon which virtue works. No externals, no virtue. Virtue is knowledge of the use of externals, and experience is important. You will never know how to drive a car if you never get in a car.

“Indifferent” is an unfortunate translation. “Adiaphora” is the ancient Greek term which basically means “neutral.” It is neither one thing nor the other. It is not differentiable. It is undifferentiated. Indifference as in “not giving a fxck” is an entirely different concept. Indifferents are neutral.

Externals are neither good nor bad in the absence of knowledge of their use. They share in goodness when wisely used, and badness when not used wisely. Some seem to believe that the Stoics concluded that external resources are never beneficial. This is incorrect. The more accurate statement is that indifferents are never beneficial in the absence of wisdom and the knowledge of how to deal with them. You can have all the oysters in the world, but that is of no benefit if you don’t how to open them. The Stoics claimed that indifferents in the absence of knowledge do not contribute to eudaimonia, therefore alone are not beneficial. The benefit comes from the knowledge of their use. I would like an example of an indifferent alone being beneficial without knowledge of its use!

According to the Stoics, Virtue is the knowledge of how to properly make use of external indifferents. If you see virtue as participation in the form of the good as did Plato, then the Stoic position is difficult to get to. But if you see virtue as knowledge of the use of indifferents, there is no gap to be bridged. The firefighter’s knowledge of firefighting and his knowledge of the use of the axe is what brings benefit. An axe is of no benefit in saving anyone from a fire in the absence of knowing how to use it and why it should be used. That is the virtue of a good fireman. In the absence of that the axe is sitting in the truck doing nothing.

The Stoics did not relate Virtue to intentions. Everyone thinks they are doing the right thing. Everyone seeks the good. Nobody knowingly does wrong. Our common-sense belief that “good intentions makes any act good” is not the Stoic position. The Stoics believed that understanding what is going on and what is the appropriate thing to do is the only “good”. Your intentions must track the world in order for them to be good. This is what is known in ethics as “externalism”. This is how what you do relates to the harmony of the whole, and inadvertently harming people through well intended ignorance does not pass the bar. It is the external world that tells us whether we are right or wrong. This applies to cats, dogs and crows as equally as it applies to humans. If your criterion of truth exists entirely within your own head, you can never know whether you are right or wrong.

The Socratic intellectualism of the Stoics is that knowing what is good is sufficient to doing good. While experience comes into it, you progress in virtue by improved understanding, not by repeatedly doing virtuous things. Virtue is a performative art because it is done for the sake of itself. Epictetus noted that just because you cannot be a Socrates, this does not mean that aspiring to be a Socrates is not the best way to live. And to be a Socrates is to be someone involved in a lifelong project of self-examination and the acquisition of this “knowledge of the use of things”.

Virtue is “tekhne”. This is the ancient Greek word for “art, craft, technique, or skill”. It is a philosophical concept that refers to the act of making or doing. Virtue is knowledge of the good and bad use of indifferents. While nobody has ever been fully virtuous, we can all progress towards it. To be fully virtuous, you would have to know all the relevant backstory and knowledge of things. You would have to always make the right choice in how to deal with indifferents. Clearly no one can actually do that! But knowledge is the only good and ignorance is the only vice. Virtue is the only thing up to you, and virtue is knowing what is the right thing and what is not. And it is also knowing when you do not know! In a virtue ethics situation, sometimes you should and sometimes you should not. It is always contextual. The ancient Greek word for virtue is actually “arete”. This translates as “excellence.” It should be clear that Virtue was seen as expertise in the use of knowledge. This aligns perfectly with what Socrates taught.

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2 responses to “James Daltrey on Virtue & the use of Indifferents”

  1. shinyfest6ff77b14c9 Avatar
    shinyfest6ff77b14c9

    To be fully virtuous, you would have to know all the relevant backstory and knowledge of things.

    Since the wise man is fully virtuous and he also knows what he doesn’t know, would that not imply that he doesn’t know all relevant backstory of any given external?

    What is meant with all relevant backstory of things?

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    1. James Daltrey Avatar

      You’ve answered your own question, he knows when he doesn’t know. The greatest error is thinking that you know when you don’t.

      The backstory thing relates to the Stoic theory of causation which is not that A causes B in a snapshot of time, it is that A and B have been in an evolving relationship over time and you need to understand that process.

      As such me knowledge of facts does not constitute knowledge in the sense of which the Stoics considered knowledge to be knowledge;

      If you are to know what you are to do next, you need a deep understanding of the dynamics of what is happening now and the dynamics of how it got to be what is happening now. You can’t just read off a rulebook that will tell you when this happens do this because each situation is historically unique.

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